And so they ended up shifting the thinking away from the idea that there'd be a kingdom here on Earth that was soon to come to thinking that the kingdom, in fact, is up with God above in heaven. The angel Lucifer had a free will and made his own choices. Well, if we're being rewarded, they're going to be punished. How is it that, witlessly, you have become the fourth? The Bible's answer The Bible shows that God did not create the Devil. Miracles Don't Exist. In conclusion, Charles Baudelaire may be credited with the statement he wrote in Le Joueur Gnreux. (Gallica of Bibliothque Nationale de France at gallica.bnf.fr), 1918 November, The English Review, Edited by Austin Harrison, Volume 27, The Generous Gambler by Charles Baudelaire, Translated from French by Arthur Symons, Start Page 354, Quote Page 355, Published at 19 Garrick Street, London. GROSS: So your new book is about the history of heaven and hell. Scholar Weighs the Baloney and the Brimstone (Continuation title: SATAN: Expert Sifts Fiendish Fact, Fiery Fiction), Continue reading, I like to quote from Baudelaire, he retaliated. Without a god, we would not be able to live the life we are living. My lodging is filled with lizards and rats; In short, the Choir of Angels has been following the Archangel because he is God's chosen vessel. The Easter story is a story of hope that - in the Easter story, death is not the final word, that there's something that comes after death. earning money as a day laborer in Geneva, spent his earnings on drink. A Huguenot lover will be able to marry I in fact think God would tell me to fuq off if I worshipped God because of the devil because it would be a complete misunderstanding of God to start with, and complete ignorance about "worship God" to boot. lived like a monster, and ended by killing some old man and robbing him. So if Satan was there already trying to tempt Eve and bring Eve into evil, we can know for certainty then that he fell before Adam and Eve did. And as I say in my book, as we'll probably get to, it may be true that we will live after we die. Emphasis added to excerpts by QI:[1]1836, Quakerism Examined: In a Reply to the Letter of Samuel Tuke by John Wilkinson, Chapter 4: Is the Sacrifice of Christ Held in Proper Estimation by the Society of Friends?, Quote Page 239 and Continue reading. And the other interesting thing is that what the Gnostics did, by reading their ideas into Jesus, is also what the Orthodox Christians did, by putting words in Jesus' lips that supported their ideas of heaven and hell. Ehrman is a distinguished professor of religious studies at The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and is one of America's most widely read scholars of early Christianity and the New Testament. But did it ever occur to them what life would be like without such a mischievous devil? If God didnt exist, it would be necessary to invent him. So for them, there's no resurrection of the dead. Everybody loves a deep, dreamless sleep. And she holds a kind of seance. This is what the Old Testament taught. Essentially, if God didnt exist, wed have to invent him since we still need a deity to worship. The authoritative record of NPRs programming is the audio record. The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns. But then toward the end of the Hebrew Bible era, some Jewish thinkers came to believe that the future resurrection would apply not just to the nation but to individuals. Christopher McQuarrie? His new book is Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife. (SOUNDBITE OF MICHAEL NYMAN'S "HOW DO I KNOW YOU KNOW?". The things that are happening now are absolutely dreadful as, of course, they were in 1916 to - 1914 to 1918 and as they have been at other times in history. But then time dragged on, and a couple of decades passed, and it didn't arrive, and Paul started realizing that, in fact, he might die before it happens. This Richard was, someones illegitimate child; at the age of six he was, parents to some Swiss mountain shepherds, who brought him up to work for, them. Bart Ehrman, welcome back to FRESH AIR. Truth is we all have free choice; we can freely choose to do good or to do bad. I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. This kind of thinking, though, really came to prominence at the end of the 19th and into the 20th century and hit big prominence in 1945, when we actually had the means of destroying ourselves off the planet, which we still have, by the way. In this poem, Voltaire develops the idea that the existence of God (or the belief therein) helps establish social order. And so in our various Gospels, you have Jesus saying all sorts of things that are contradictory because different people are putting their own ideas onto his lips. This is the view of Christianity. Consult Zoroaster, and Minos, and Solon, GROSS: Well, Bart Ehrman, I wish you good health, and I thank you very much for talking with us. Faith Healing And Prayer Are False. Throughout his life, Voltaires prose covers a broad spectrum of genres. Our associate producer of digital media is Molly Seavy-Nesper. See Page 1. Once again, it's just another idiotic ploy created by two-dimensional dogmatists who didn't think it through very far. There have been a few different opinions concerning who made the following statement: "The Devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he doesn't exist." EHRMAN: I do in some ways. There is hope in moments of complete despair. Good people have believed me: the evil ones, crushed, But it's not what you believe. Devil doesn't know? But Jesus isn't talking about heaven because he doesn't believe - he's a Jew - he doesn't believe in the separation of soul and body. Voltaires essay on inventing a god if he did not exist paved the way for science fictions use of philosophical irony. It'll be exponential. If God knew that Satan would rebel, why did He create him? Revelation 12:4 is understood to be a figurative description of one third of the angels choosing to follow Satan in his rebellion, becoming the fallen angelsdemons. I try to respect everybody's views. And, you know, this time we may have it right. People aren't talking about nuclear weapons anymore, but they probably should be because that's another way this whole thing might end. And so this is what the later Paul has to say, and this is the beginning of the Christian idea of heaven and hell, that you can exist - even though your physical remains are dead, you can exist in the presence of God in heaven. And the most famous of the Gnostic Gospels is Thomas. You turn my words against me. You get it everywhere in the writings of the prophets in Amos and Isaiah, etc. For Gnostics, the idea of being raised in your body was repulsive. I'm wondering if you're hearing that kind of thing, too. He wasn't raised in Israel; he was from outside of Israel. And so they denied the idea of the resurrection of the body. We'll talk more after a break. But he was also, like Jesus, an apocalypticist who thought that at the end of the age, there would be a resurrection of the dead. And for it to be chosen, there must be an option not to . Press J to jump to the feed. We begin life with God as our Creator and Judge. So you caught me, but let it be, Im. Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! He was the one who bringing them into it. Must lead them in peace to the feet of the common master; It's not going to be something awful. It comes - Gnosticism, in some ways, comes out of Greek thinking. If you're just joining us, my guest is Bart Ehrman, who is the author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife." And people generally point to these passages in the Book of Psalms that talk about Sheol, or Sheol. The baby laughs with glee, holds out its little hands to the pistol, and he pulls the trigger in the baby's face and blows out its brains. Here it is, in its entirety. Could a Loving God Create Hell To Torment People For Eternity? The angels were created as servants of God, and they were supposed to serve God in obedience. EHRMAN: The various groups of Christians that people sometimes label gnostic would cover a wide range of views. "I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness." - Fyodor Dostoevsky . Would we have heaven on earth, and would hell simply not exist anymore? Well, I am glad. Most people just say, well, look - you know, it's a pandemic, and we better pay attention to our scientists, which is, obviously, the more socially satisfying answer to the question. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist. I mean, when you die, you stop breathing. A writing: The Three Impostors was written by an anonymous author. Speaker 1. After death comes judgment ( Heb. His earlier books include "Misquoting Jesus" and "How Jesus Became God.". GROSS: So this was all dependent on, like, the Messiah coming on the end of days, which some Jewish prophets predicted would be soon. (Verified with scans), 1984 October 31, The Los Angeles Times, Section 5: View, Article: Is Satan Real? Using a dictionary to explain a concept is a great way to clarify its meaning. EHRMAN: Well, thank you for having me. I already have a nice collection of them. GROSS: You've talked about how belief in the end times led in a circuitous way to belief in heaven and hell. . GROSS: So does that mean you're not leaving the house at all? When God creates Adam, he creates him out of earth, and then he breathes life into him. :25 JLP: I never correct myself 1:48:35 Ask and receive? They all adored a master, a judge, a father. I was terrified of going to hell. We're not going out. I'll occasionally walk around the block if nobody's around. You get both of those explanations. Everything2 is brought to you by Everything2 Media, LLC. We have, you know, plastics in the ocean, ice caps that are melting. A human father is a limited (and fallen) human being, so the comparison is not strictly accurate and can create some misunderstandings. Ivan, not Dostoyevsky. Answer. So their punishment is they would not get the kingdom of God. And they will live here on Earth, and this is where the paradise will be. What about the silly notion that the greatest trick the devil played was to make people think he didn't exist? Strange Reports from Zones Unknown and other writings of R. R. Stark can be found at: R. R. Stark now has three e-book at Amazon.com. We're recording this on Thursday. As you said, this is going to be what my next book is on, is about how people have misinterpreted Revelation as a prediction of about what's going to happen in our future. GROSS: I'm wondering what you think about when you think about how the number of people who are contracting COVID 19 and how the number of people who are dying keeps growing as we get closer to Passover and Easter, which are very holy times in Judaism and Christianity. There are people today who are saying that the reason of the pandemic is because, you know, one sin or another. 504Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland. Does BTS Live Together? In this article, well discuss Voltaires essay and why he believes the concept of a creator is so vital to society. In trying to understand why God created Satan, knowing he would rebel, we should also consider the following facts: 1) Lucifer had a good and perfect purpose before his fall. There will be less dogma with more virtue. God has ordained that Satan have a long leashwith God holding onto itbecause he knows that when we walk in and out of those temptations, struggling both with the physical and moral effects that they bring, more of God's glory will shine in that battle than if he took Satan out yesterday. Texas | 167 views, 4 likes, 0 loves, 6 comments, 2 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Shekinah Tabernacle Baptist Church of Dallas, TX: Shekinah. And how important is the concept of God to societys well-being? I have a different set of beliefs. Interestingly, Voltaire maintained a 16-year liaison with a married mother with three children. John Wilkinson published a version in 1836, but the notion is difficult to trace and earlier instances probably exist. I think that if the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created, him, he has created him in his own image and likeness., Youre a remarkably good implorator of unholy suits, as Polonius, Ivan laughed. Season 2 of Untold has arrived and it's more viral than ever! When the breath leaves the body, the body no longer lives, but the breath doesn't exist. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, my guest will be a doctor who has worked in war zones around the world and is now battling the pandemic, treating patients in his own country, England. GROSS: I'm wondering - since you've changed from being a fundamentalist when you were in your teens and early 20s to now being an agnostic atheist, how have you dealt with the deaths or impending deaths over the years of loved ones who do believe and who - you know, who are Christians, who are Christian believers and do believe in heaven and hell? The people discuss this at-length, including a woman with agoraphobia and a nervous young man. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist. I don't think I'm scarred much longer, but I worked really, really hard at it. If you actually look at what the Psalms say about Sheol, they always equate it to the grave or to the pit. He will raise the dead. One of the mysteries of the Christian life is why God didn't destroy Satan immediately after Satan sinned. 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