The context evoked by the pictures is also, not really germane. Even between St. Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, for example! Sponsoring Registrar:Directi Internet Solutions d/b/a PublicDomainRegistry.Com (R27-LROR) Dont bear false witness to your neighbor is a law from God. I believe that they would have believed in Sola Scriptura. With such comments as such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though and I think this characterizes the attitude of Akins crew well and, oddly enough, corresponds with the general attitude of ignorant zeal held by those in the doctored photographs.; is there any doubt as to what CareBears motives were from the very start? Very well-spotted. Thatd be a really uninformative debate. Considering all that information, it is easy to understand why alpha omega tattoos are certainly one of the best kinds of tattoos for men and women. Minor arguments would have been resolved by the awesome power of the Holy Spirit bearing witness to the true Canon, and history would witness to the fact that most Christians just spontaneously/miraculously agreed on the texts of the scriptures themselves. If you want discussion on the real issues, cut the drama. That many people cant all be wrong absent a huge conspiracy and at this point it seems more charitable to believe that White really is rather off-putting than to conclude that all his opponents are in some sort of sinister league with each other. Roman Catholic fanbois of Mapname.com customer 3 Either you believe what the Bible says, or you do not. Registrant Country:US Every book is expensive to one with 4 (soon to be 5) kids, 1 income. God used the blood of many martyrs to give you a bath you desperately needed. The Epistle from Laodicea to the Colossians This is regardless of the bare facts of the case. CareBear: If you look through Jimmys comboxes, youll see not infrequent apologies and admissions of error or wrongdoing from Jimmys readers (yours truly included). Maybe not the best nor accurate but nonetheless tongue in cheek. Esau is the one with the consiracy theories. The Manner of the Kingdom[2] God is with us. The Reformers werent reforming against Trent. Simply put, God knew both the Rule of Scripture and the Text of Scripture before it was ever written. More ad hominem. And St. Cyprian in the third century wrote: Whoever is separated from the Church is separated from the promises of Christ One cannot have God as a Father who has not the Church as his mother. As far as real names go: Might be time for some kind of update to these. Let me share with you one of the Rules of Strider for Apologetics (and I am making this up off the top of my head): I dont need to read everything hes written about every topic in order to engage in discussion about a single topic. Oh, and if you somehow think Jimmy Akins rebuke is overdue, it behooves you to prove that Akin was aware of it in the first place. CB, . The whole point of the thing is that its just as irrational for Catholic Answers to do the auto-forward given that those who follow White are unlikely to stay and read the site as it would be for White to do it, just to have something to complain about. If you would like to know more about Jamie or further details on our editorial policy then just click the links in the footer. White did not lose. Ill admit theres nothing gnostic about *that*. Sometimes, when an issue is so big, its hopeless to carve it up into little soundbytes or hastily posted zingers. What answers can be given except the councils, the fourth century, the documents from it, and the canon that we and you accept? [2][3] He is the author of several books. But why is it that youll use the phrase our people for those who were killed, but disown any stock in those who killed? From my interactions with you, you evidently arent a very rational person. There must be some bug in the water in Reformed country. Esther Begging the question of when you proved that such a thing was true. To the extent that I have been overbearing, I apologize. Therehappy? Thank God my wife wants to stay homeI couldnt imagine daycare for 4. Most Thursday Afternoons at 4:00 MST Showing that someone is not engaging in appropriate discussion methods is not taunting. Then we talked vaccine mandates and what they Back in the regular studio today. than to take a route never spoken of by Christ or the Bible, and just confess to God by yourself. 2) Some persons suggest that Mr. Whites manner of criticizing Dr. Beckwith is wanting in the Charity that he, as member and especially as a leader in the Christian church, is obliged to handle matters with. : Admin Street3: lied. How can you say it is SDGs personal determination when it is you who says it is? of Mapname.com customer 3 Uhhh Esau, Thus, I follow the Bishop of Rome (the successor to St Peter on earth), because the Catholic Church is, I believe, truly Christs Church. Enough of this nonsense. Im disappointed. Mary, Now instead, you ought to forgive. That kind of gets you very close to the mud and sometimes you fall in. I hope Dr. White learns that one take-home message. Ergo, your proposition doesnt make sense, and dont try to rob the situation of its context again. Quite liberating, actually. Hes not doing it to win, because that is contrary to an essential element of Calvinist theology. Keep your fallacy out of my doctrine if you dont want my logic in your Church. God help him; his friends clearly arent going to do so. 177. He will not win any to his way of thinking by using these pictures. How come this individual has no peace of mind? There apparently are two people using the user name Steve. Esau, Expiration Date:04-Aug-2008 09:17:04 UTC We dont have that luxury, since were not God. But I do not know what to do about it, how to overcome it. My reason to believe this involves trusting the authority of the Church to determine authentic scripture. It might help to pick up the book as each point you raise is dealt with by White, as you can see. No. It would have been wrong and far worse to have pictures of people who are obviously Catholic holding up such signs. Dennis most of the comments are either trolls saying random things, or folks refuting them. Thus the illustration is flawed at its most basic lever. Its pretty clear bill912, it would only take light reading to understand Whites book. OK, Lisa. Two comments that youve made about Esau, with emphasis mine: pro-Catholics. Question: if the Bible is 100% Gods Word (as I believe as well), why do we talk about Paul, Peter, Matthew, etc. Are. Dean thank you greatly; I have no trouble with you repeating it, since it seems that the prior times had no effect.. It isnt funny to point out that the people who make vague accusations about the URL could have done it themselves? The instrument of healing that God chose was to direct Moses to mount a bronze serpent on a pole. We never win anything. The Greek people believed that the goddess Moira decide when a person to be born and to die, or in a biblical sense when a person should begin or end. Krautoid. Thatsobtuse. I hope that helps. God only wrote one book, not 200 different They interlocutors or their comboxers are hypocrites for ending a discussion based We are now praying for your conversion to the fullness of the faith. For example, when Jimmy Akin has stated something incorrectly on a post, youll still find the original statement he made there and that it had only been redlined out (so-to-speak) with the appropriate corrected statement featured above the original one. Name Server: *grin*. Thats what I couldnt quite understand I respect Akin but I do feel he misdirected people away from the tough theological questions. If ya hold to one. Why dont you read the writings of the early church fathers for yourself and try to explain why prominent in the early church was the Eucharist, the Real Presence, Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick, among other things Catholic? I dont want there to be confusion. Well, thats true enough in its own way. What in the world does that have to do with anything, other than you assume Divine insufficiency? [definition from Thank you and God bless! Thank you. He has contributed to more than twenty books. I accept that the photos and captions were jokes. I wont mention what else I think you actually are, out of good manners & Christian charity. Every month another new Bible version comes out of the The common thread is a way of letting off steam, privately or at least non-publicly, in order to continue their job of preventing injury or death. Some belive that is a miracle of sharing. if he repents doesnt seem to require us to forgive those who do not repent. The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins Are you sure youre in the Vast Angelwing Conspiracy? It would be unfair for anyone to criticize me in the context of a team meeting for not being much of a coach (one of my other responsibilities). Yes, I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of my own free will, through the grace of God, who has written the natural law on the hearts of all humankind. Im asking you HOW DO YOU KNOW HEBREWS IS SCRIPTURE??? So whos got the guts to step up and make the call next Tuesday? I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. Is that Catholic teaching? Name Server: Perhaps Jimmy shouldnt just cut off conversation. (Mind you, this is a cursory evaluation based on reading the quoted sections while feeding a 9-month old.) They are compromised and pulling on the same rope as the Devil. Were just happy to be there when God makes it happen. I will do us all the honor of believing that it is truly Gods will that we wish to do, On Earth as it IS in Heaven. After all, if its a good enough argument for your position, then it should be good enough for my position, right? You still havent said anything that hasnt already been said. Esau, you contradict yourself. Heck, I am part of it for even commenting but its like the accident on the side of the road, you know, the one where you cant help but stare :(. I gotta admit, youve made your argument. But the simplest definition of the word mystic only means one who loves God very much. 44 You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. Or maybe its just a game. I did not write this article to be When White does this analogy to jihadism to make his point, I think he does it out of a deep sense of frustration 2. I might agree with some points he makes, but theyre overwhelmed by the mudslinging. Did you not even remember your post???? Not a problem. M Burke criticized Francis Beckwiths doctorate, but refers to James White as Dr White? Realize that the only place an omnipresent God cannot be is in the heart of those who refuse Him. It seems a bit strange to hear (Especially from a Calvinist) that the Canon of Scripture was borne into existence and unbeknownst to God before the writing of scripture proper. I checked the flow of my tears and got up, for interpreted this solely as a command given to me by God to open the book and read the first chapter I should come upon. Stubble, People are just talking past one another. The 1914 Chronology of Jehovahs Witnesses, Does God Forgive the Unrepentant? You have reduced yourself to the status of a troll. BELIEVES the Gospel has eternal life, which can never be forfeited or I will claim that he has done the deadliest thing for a humorist: failed to make his audience laugh. To many, Dr. James White needs no introduction. All we have right now is a giant urinary joust of who is more charitable and/or offensive. Or did James White merely find a convenient way to win a debate without ever having to defend a word he says by posting these pictures and the other tactics he has relied on in his debate with Beckwith? of Mapname.com customer 3 In other words, Im willing to read something that attempts to substantiate Sola Scriptura, but its not practical, nor reasonable, for you or others to expect me to run out and read your part of the discussion in someone elses book. in Judaism the same type of traditions exist and they are known as Talmud (Oral Torah). Was Paul an Apostle of Jesus or an Innovator? he has filled in a joke template, but I can also see that it may have no humor in it, at least for many people. Which ones? Webcast Pot; meet Mr Kettle. Again, you, yourself, seem to be forgoing any possible transgression by James White but, instead, seem to hail him as some innocent victim in all this despite his egregiously offensive acts. did I? Did Jesus Offer Himself on the Cross as a Willing Sacrifice for the Sins of Gods People? Why not just say, God did it, since to attribute Gods work to mans work is unbiblical. But if it is legitimate to say that God used the distinctive personalities and historical circumstances of these figures to communicate his truth, then something can be both 100% Gods doing and human beings cooperate. But its starting to look to me like almost everyone who White squares off against winds up feeling personally offended. I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. If this is the best of the best, Im not all that impressed. I ask this with great personal fear, being myself guilty. (Of course, in that time, I did some theological reflection, and the doctrine developed into a more fully rounded & Biblical set of teachings. Registrant City:Riverside Ill choose to not read Dr. Whites book at this time. Of course we hold these truths to be self-evident! But he didnt. Evangelicals, in particular, can play a spiritual service to White by making this clear to him, since as the pictures themselves illustrate, he is deaf to appeals to charity from Catholics. Funny. Especially since all those things were so intertwined with the liturgy that the members of the Early Church could hardly talk about them separately? They died long ago, so they dont know anything. Okay, CareBear, tell me then, which books do you consider inspired and tell me exactly why???? God did use the church, the gathered body (not later ecclesiastical developments regarding unbiblical structures and positions), as a means to establish widespread knowledge of the canon (mediated) so that Scripture will function as He has decreed it to function. Humility, gentleness, courtesy, charity, respect, equanimity, charity rejecting anything that smacks of superiority, ego, disdain, triumphalism, abusiveness, dismissiveness ah, theres an argument thats very, very hard to refute. Could Mary/Foxfire actually be right all along??? Indeed, will He not exercise just as much divine power in establishing and fufilling His purpose for the Scriptures (their functioning as a guide to the church) as He has in inspring them? Hes lived in Phoenix since 2015 and resides from sunny (and expensive) San Diego. How much of early Church history and/or Church Fathers have you read? You must neccessarily ASSUME the following to draw that conclusion: May no one be less good for having come within my influence. This is DISHONEST folks! All of the category error pussyfooting nicely dodges the real problem with the picture: White states an equivalence between people in the comment thread demanding charity (yes, in a predictable and certainly from his standpoint irritating fashion) with those who use violence and intimidation to silence their opponents. You. What really is the Gospel? Keep it up with the category errors, maybe the laws of logic will change and afford you the ability to rightfully get indignant over something that never occured. Your first sentence is a non sequitur. But Greg, heres my inquiry to you. He purposely used these terms to refer to those who share Akins opinion IN SPITE OF the fact that there are actually PROTESTANTS who have voiced similar opinions about James White and share the same disgust over Whites behaviour. For whatever reason, James White seems to prefer projecting a more impassive public persona. Are Roman Catholics Our Brothers and Sisters in Christ? I discovered that he was honestly mistaken when I studied the Catholic faith. Only later did Dr Beckwith tell us that thats just his funny way of talking. if the commenter had substituted people for racevoila! I ask You Father to comfort my brother Theo, as he enters Your Courts trembling and contrite. I guess were all waiting for something. It is not a *relationship*. Dean on the URL, yeah, thats the one suggestion that none of Whites defenders ever paid any attention to, although like I said when I first suggested it its the most likely. You are assuming that Catholic Answers is *stupid* and that is frankly offensive. Id like to note something amusing: John 6 I would like to invite Evangelicals, including those who have been close to White, to both publicly and privately distance themselves from the actions of Mr. White in posting these pictures as an act fundamentally incompatible with Christian charity. He united China through conquest, began the Great Wall of China, and had the Terra Cotta warriors built. I know that a great deal of technical analysis is left out, here. Hence the frustration. Admin FAX: Amphiboly. Admin Street2: Thus the context and content (Canon and actual writing) of the scriptural embodiment of the Word was known by God before the beginning of time, and cannot be a knowledge that is learned or was not previously owned by its Author. Final Dividing Line of 2022. Reminds me of Bilbo talking to Smaug. Ill ammend my positions and habits post haste. Dearest Heaven Father, Lord Jesus, and Holy Spirit who resides with us now, People did this to James White. Gospel to be saved (Mark 1:15). *YAWN* We can natter on about category errors and suchlike, all the while stating what a fitting comparison the individual in question made. Now, as I believe, Ive addressed Mr. Whites quotations. We have been sucked into it because The lonely hermetic cell is calling [us] to quiet, prayerful contemplation and [we are] running from the silence where the voice of God resides. So no one should respond to Hittchens or Dawkins because they are sometimes offensive? You change your mind about sin (John 3:20), admitting that you're a guilty Tech Organization:to attn. Why would I have to? We are to forgive not just 7 timesremember those words? The sort of conversation you might overhear at a professional wrestling match, I imagine. I thought that this was an apologetics website, but I see little apologetics going on. Your style is like cotton candy, only without all that painful grit. Visit the Amazing. God Bless, Do Catholics get better seats in heaven than the Protestants? The Calvinist Club, Sola Scriptura, Purgatory, Purgatory: 1 Corinthians 3 and Tim Staples, Art Sippo on 1 Corinthians 3 and Purgatory, Called to Cyprian Responding to Anders Historical Error, The Audio for the Marian Dogmas Debate has been Posted, Top Ten Reasons NOT to Join the Roman Catholic Church. I have tried to state what I hope may be a consensus analysis of humor scholars: Jimmy is more right in his analysis of the humor of these pictures than Dr. White is. I once posted a blog about the illogic of sola scriptura You are not in a position to offer any sort of informed criticism. Feb 24. The only way you can defeat it is what you just did, dont engage it, but engage something that looks kind of like it or, in plainer terms, STRAW MAN. 2. : Jimmy has a legitimate point about a serious matter. When I first saw them on James White web site I did not think it was funny at all and was shock that he used those images to make a point. FOR PEOPLE TO ARGUE WITH YOU, THEY HAVE TO COME HERE TO DO IT. folks.) Blog Wasnt Nazism, for example, based on a twisted reading of Darwinism? If anything, you are actually guilty of the fallacy of neglected evidence as you have failed to consider (to the extent of even overlooking) evidence that is likely to be relevant to the argument here such as elements in the debate itself between White v. Beckwith. Would the Disciples not choose their own disciples? Sorry, Gwen, but your post style so so like Carebears that I didnt notice when you jumped into a conversation. Word of the day, insane: Since when is it anyones duty to prove innocence? Posted by: Jeremiah | Aug 9, 2007 7:41:30 PM Dear Okey: Be willing to plunge headlong into the endless expanse of murky swamp to get where you need to go but do not be willing to luxuriate in it. If thats not good enough for you, so be it. Use the right background for the right humor. He has crossed a fundamental line that shows himself to be incapable of holding a rational discussion. As it stands, canon as a product of tradition has been destroyed. And, as he is becoming more stupid, I can only imagine it as a sign that he is moving closer to Rome. I didnt accuse anyone of anything. Took some great Zoom calls today discussing the vine and the branches in John 15, MBTS, the Great Tradition, and Thomas (took a long time on this one), and then the Trinity, the Cross, inseparable operations, etc. He was also a critical consultant for the Lockman Foundation's New American Standard Bible. Given that Jesus Himself warned that you should count the cost before becoming a Christian, you have to explain why something being dark and threatening is an argument against it. Tobit The conversion of the greatest early Church Father, St. Augustine of Hippo. 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